How to Live a Life Aligned With Who You Really Are with Tai Goodwin

Allegra Sinclair 0:01

Welcome to the Your Confident Self podcast with Allegra Sinclair. Get ready to punch fear in the throat and gain confidence like never before. I help corporate women get the confidence to ask for the job they want, and do the work they love. Isn't it time you got unstuck and showed the world how fabulous you are?

Hey, this is Allegra. Welcome to this week's episode of the podcast. We have been talking for several weeks about what it looks like when you take care of yourself. When you put yourself first and not in a selfish way but in a bold and luscious and delicious way. You know you have a lot to deliver and you need to be at your best to deliver it.

And my guest today I have known, gosh, I don't even want to think about how long, but she's another testament to the fact that you can develop relationships online that are real and juicy and long lasting. Because I know a lot of people think that social media is just kind of this fluffy thing. But I have met people online who are part of my chosen family and this diva right here is one of them.

She is on a mission to help 10,000 entrepreneurs create more joy and wealth in their lives and businesses. She's the CEO of Aligned and Bankable and creator of the Growth Alignment Index. She works with empathic, introverted and highly-sensitive entrepreneurs, showing them how to build a profitable business they love. I'm so excited, I can't even get it out. She shows them how to build a profitable businesst that's 100% in alignment with who they are. That part is so delicious. We should just say it twice, 100% in alignment with who they are.

Tai Goodwin is also a former corporate trainer. She has a master's degree in instructional design, 20 years of experience in designing courses, training programs and certification, she's just completely bad ass y'all. Please welcome my friend Tai Goodwin.

Tai Goodwin 2:09

Yeah, I'm so excited to be here. I am so so so happy to be talking to you today.

Allegra Sinclair 2:15

It has been a long time coming. But good things come to those who wait. So for those who had never heard of you, before we got on this podcast. If they're only going to listen for the first five minutes, what do you want them to know about you?

Tai Goodwin 2:30

Oh, I want them to know that I am all about helping them make their business bankable. I want them to be seen and heard without feeling like they have to become somebody else to do it. And I also want them to make as much money as they want. That's me right there.

Allegra Sinclair 2:50

There's a lot to unpack in that one sentence, so let's just get to it. It's a fascinating concept of making people bankable. So there's a lot going on now in the online space, having been in it for about 10 years, you kind of see things come in waves. But I'm definitely seeing a renaissance of authenticity in what people are doing. Because I think for a while there was this trend towards doing what you saw other people doing. And I get that, right? Why reinvent the wheel, if somebody has a formula that will work, you know, you try to figure out, hey, maybe I could do that. But there's a danger in copying people isn't there?

Tai Goodwin 3:29

There's a huge danger in copying people. And I think we're kind of moving past that phase now. And every industry has this, you know, where there's somebody who's a pioneer, and then people copy that pioneer. And then somebody realizes that, you know, I don't really want to copy them, what I want is something more innovative. And so then they go off. So if you think about like even the car industry, right? You know, Ford was one of the pioneers, but he actually copied his modeling off of somebody else, okay. Quietly, you know, and then, you know, took it in a completely different direction. And it takes time for industries to kind of evolve with this process. And that's what we're seeing right now.

So you're absolutely right online, everybody started off kind of all this is brand new. And let's get up a website. And let's do all this. And then online marketing became a thing and then oh yes, let's use online technology to market that people. So we're going to do this. And then everybody was doing webinars and online courses and all those things. And now people are starting to realize that, hey, there's an oversaturation in the market. Everybody looks the same, and the results are skewed. Right? Because just because somebody looks like they're doing something doesn't mean they actually know what they're doing. Okay?

Allegra Sinclair 4:48

Say that again. Oh, my goodness, you need to make sure the person you're following actually knows where they're going.

Tai Goodwin 4:57

And that they know what they're doing. And a lot of this, I mean, probably a lot of your listeners have experienced this where, you know, it's kind of like, I went to see the Wiz last week, which was amazing with Paris Bennett from American Idol way back in the day, right. But it was amazing. Paris Bennet from American Idol?

But here's the thing is kind of like The Wiz, right, where there's a man behind the screen, who isn't what he really is. And when you pull the curtain it's like what the crap is this?!

Allegra Sinclair 5:27

I think the challenge is, because I do believe this. So if I am looking at a particular topic, and there's a lot to know about that topic, right? You can be at the ground zero, where you know nothing, or you can be like an expert, you know the topic like the back of your hand. One of the things I see people do is they won't speak, they won't share, they won't try to teach anything until they think they're the expert level, which can be a problem, right? Because if I'm two years ahead of you, I have some stuff I could share with you that would help you. I don't have to wait until someone anoints me an expert, or I've been around for 12 years, in order to help someone else. The challenge though, is I'll see people learn something today, and then turn around and try to make it bankable tomorrow.

Tai Goodwin 6:21

Yeah, that's fine line. Because I always say there are certain levels of expertise. But knowing something does not make you an expert at it. And I think as long as you're honest with people about that, I don't have a problem with that. Like, you know, if you were to tell me if I was to ask you, you know, hey, how do you really skydive? And you say, well, I've watched this YouTube video and here are the four things that I know about skydiving, okay, I accept that. But if you watch the YouTube video, and then you try to take me up on a plane, I'm going to have an issue with you.

Allegra Sinclair 6:53

But here's the magic in that. You'd have to ask me how I got that knowledge. And see, that's where I think some times folks are getting their feelings hurt. Because they'll ask someone about skydiving and the person will give them the answer that they gained from the YouTube video. But the original question asker doesn't ask the person where they got that information. So they could very well be up in that plane. And that person has only watched a video.

Tai Goodwin 7:17

Or the person who is giving the information doesn't qualify or give you the context of it. A lot of people talk about being transparent. And you know, there's that, oh, how much do I share? I mean, listen, we're not saying bear all the skeletons, you know, in your closet. But you know, be transparent. One of the things I talk about, I do I do another quiz. You mentioned one quiz about the Growth Alignment, but I do another quiz called your brilliance archetype. And there's this Trailblazer role that's in that quiz. And one of the things about trailblazers is that people don't necessarily want to see the end result. They want to see your journey, because we've got enough people out there that are showing you what it looks like after it's finished. Right? And they're trying to tell you all the stuff they did, when the reality was that it took them six years to get there. And they're not showing you all the steps that they took to get like, you know, I had, this is one of my pet peeves. Allegra, can I say this?

Please stop telling me about how I need an email list when it took you 10 years to get 10,000 followers on your email list.

And then you're trying to tell me in 90 days I can have a six figure launch in 90 days. But it took you years to get 10,000 people on your list!

Allegra Sinclair 8:36

Well, okay, I could honestly say I have never said that. And I agree. But I do I get that. And I think part of the challenge is, and we talked about this a couple weeks ago in passing, but part of the challenge is, people, so I'm trying to give a coupon to the people who are still telling that story.

Part of the challenge is if I do something, and it's successful 10 years ago, but I don't pay attention and I don't grow, and I don't talk to people outside of my immediate circle. Five years from now, what I was telling people may no longer work. So new people who come along and get exposed to me are hearing my older story. But it doesn't work. But I don't know, it doesn't work. Because I've only continued to do that one thing, and to surround myself with people who only do that one thing. So referring back to your Wiz example. The Wiz knew he was faking the funk behind the curtain, right? But there was nobody around him who would say, Baby, you're gonna get busted. Nobody would tell him that this was not going to end well.

And he was only in his one little closet, where he could only see that one thing and people find change difficult. And we don't often talk about the change publicly. Because what is sexy is the end result. And some of the stuff that gets you from where you are to the end? It's not sexy.

Tai Goodwin 9:57

And then and there's also a difference between a principle and a task. I see a lot of folks, they've done the task work, right? Like, you know, so they tried this and it didn't work. They tried this, it didn't work. And they found something and it worked. And so now they're going to tell me the steps that work for them. And those are the tasks, right. So you did this, you did this, you did that. And I'll give you an example with myself.

So when I started my business, I was a single mom, I was working at home. So I didn't have the opportunity to go out and network, I didn't really have a support system around me because I lived away from my family. And so it was just me and a computer. And I leveraged the hell out of Facebook. I connected with everybody and their mom on Facebook that I ever knew in my entire life. Okay, like I went back to everybody I went to college with, I went to people I went to high school listen to later, I was a fifth grade teacher, girl, I connected with the students I taught in fifth grade.

Allegra Sinclair 10:58

Mercy! What I'm hearing is an epic level of determination.

Tai Goodwin 11:04

I was trying to do the damn thing, okay. But here's the deal. That was in 2007. I will not tell somebody today, leverage the hell out of Facebook like I did. Because it's an oversaturated market, there's a different way to use Facebook ads, I still love Facebook, I still use it. But I use it a completely different way now, because of how time. So here's the thing, the task that I did, is not going to work. The principle remains the same. The principle was about leveraging a community and leveraging a network. But the way I do that, the tasks that I do are completely different. So now I don't go around to like a whole bunch of people, because everybody is trying to friend everybody,

Allegra Sinclair 11:12

Are they still doing that?

Tai Goodwin 11:50

Oh, girl, my inbox blows up with a whole bunch of friends because I actually had to, I had like 5000 friends, and I had to go back and delete, like 2000 people. So I'm like, I don't know you. And it's taking up too much space. So I don't do the friend thing anymore. Unless there's something or somebody I really want to connect with. I use it more strategically. But what I do is I have built a Facebook group, and Facebook communities are everything right now. So that's the task. But the principle has changed.

And that's what a lot of folks I see don't realize is that this worked for you at that time because of what was going on. Three months from now, six months from now, definitely a year from now, you may not be able to use the same task. But if you don't take the time to understand the principles that got you there, and you're only teaching the task, you are selling people the Golden Gate Bridge when you don't have access to it.

Allegra Sinclair 12:46

I think that is so magical about the way you go to market because so many people are focused on task. And it comes in waves. So, not for nothing, I used to love Pinterest and I didn't use Pinterest for business. I was just out there gamboling about like a bunny having a good time creating boards. Girl, I had a board that was fashion travesties because I loved award season. And I'm all about what people wore on the red carpet. And I thought the world needed my opinion on the red carpet. So I had a board for people who were slaying it. And then I had a board for people. And I was like, ooo touch this baby, just pray for this child right here, because she must not have a mirror or anyone who loves her.

But I was on Pinterest and I was getting a whole bunch of friends doing it and we were all just gambling about like a bunny. Then I guess the universe shifted in Pinterest now doesn't even pretend it's a social platform, it is a search engine. So there are a lot of people who are really using Pinterest to drive traffic to their site great. In one week, or Okay, maybe I'll give it a two week period, I must have gotten 20 emails with offers of courses on Pinterest. But none of them were teaching that Pinterest is now a search engine and you approach it differently. It was all tactical.

So I purchased one of them, you know, spent like 97 bucks. And I was going through it and I was like I don't understand Pinterest any more than I did before I started. There was a lot in there about how I size my image and like creating a template for my image, right. So to your point, all the tasks, but I still didn't really feel like I understood why on earth, I would want to be out there. So there were recommendations for tools that they use and all that good stuff. But, and I have looked at several, none of them helped me understand why Pinterest should be part of my marketing strategy. And I'm not mad at them. And I'm not mad at Pinterest. And I'll share things there occasionally. And I even try to remember to create images for my posts. Because I know people who play on Pinterest want to have it in the right size. But I'm not full out playing there because I don't get it. [Update, I've taken a new Pinterest course and now understand it to be a MAJOR PLAYER in driving traffic to my site. I'm REALLY good at it now.]

Tai Goodwin 14:44

Absolutely.

Allegra Sinclair 14:45

And if I don't get it, I'm not throwing my money after something that I don't get. So I think the fact that you start with making yourself bankable is magic. because not a lot of people do that a lot of people start with the here's how you get yourself published. Or here's how you get your website up. And I work with a lot of coaches because I'm a nerd at heart. So I work with a lot of coaches who are just starting their coaching businesses. And we talk a lot about their websites. And I stump them often not because I mean to but because when I first started and was working with a business coach, he asked me, what's your business look like? And I was like, excuse me? Right? He's like, well, who are you? Who do you serve? Why?

He was asking very basic questions. And in that first conversation, I had to have a little talk, I had to have a little Jesus moment with myself and say, I'm not ready because I don't have the answers to these questions. But it only took me a minute to sit still and think and chew on it and refine it to the point where I had it cold. I had 'this is who I am, this is what I do, and here's a perfect client for me. And here's what I can do for them. And here's how I want want them to reach out to me.' But we don't always talk about that. We talk about the mechanics, where your website should be, should it be WordPress or should it be Wix? Should you be on Facebook? Should you be on Instagram, right? And then you get on those platforms, but you don't have anything to say.

Tai Goodwin 16:15

You don't have anything that differentiates you. You know, you're just like everyone else. I experienced that, so one of the courses that I offer is something called Quizology. It's a smarter way to do lead generation. And it's for coaches, consultants and holistic practitioners and other folks that I work with. But here's what you know is a trend right now is the quiz. Right? So everybody in their mom's creating a quiz, right? Come find out if you should live in New York, or come find out you're a donkey? Or if you're a cat.

Which Wakanda will you be.

Allegra Sinclair 17:00

Ooo, don't take me there. I haven't seen the movie yet, so please don't spoil it. I am avoiding some social media so hard right now, because I haven't gotten to see the movie yet. But yes, quizzes are very popular.

Tai Goodwin 17:17

But one of the things I find that everybody's talking about, well just create questions. Now my class is all about the backend system that I've got set up so that when people are actually taking quiz, little do they know they are giving me market research data, because all of my quiz questions are connected to tags in my email service provider. And just this morning I was talking to somebody she said, "Oh, I loved your quiz, I took it." and I pulled her name right up and I can see, she doesn't know how to package her stuff. She doesn't know how to market her stuff. She's good with her brand. But she doesn't know how to scale her business. So I had three things on that call that I could talk with her about and by the end of the call she was like, "how can I work with you?". But that is because I use all of that stuff on the back end. And people don't teach that strategy portion of it. Because it's like you said, they're all about the mechanics. They're all about the, you know, let's just let me show you how to do these three things. I know how to use the tool now. So I'm a pro.

Allegra Sinclair 18:13

Exactly. And I'm not mad about the people who focus on the mechanics because you do need mechanics, because if I visit one more website that has got a red background and blue letters, I'm just gonna have to call website Jesus and tell him real quick to start striking people down. So there is some importance in knowing what you're doing with the tools when you get to that step. I just want us to stop for a moment before we get to that step.

Tai Goodwin 18:39

I'm laughing over website Jesus, that is my favorite. That is my new favorite. Oh, my goodness, that's too funny. Yes, the reality of it is it's just really knowing, knowing what you're doing. I mean, there's a lot of folks out there, especially in the entrepreneurial space, who are just selling services and not building a business. If you just want to sell your services, you got a part time job, or you got a full time job and you're selling your services, that's great. But if you're really trying to build a business, there's some education that you need to have. You can't just get online and say buy my stuff, or here's what I do, or I got the cool picture with me that's all across the screen so now people think I'm cool. Like, that's great. But you have to have some results to back up your stuff.

Allegra Sinclair 19:27

I'm sitting here giggling I'm like, wait, are you dissing big hero images? Have you seen my website lately?

Tai Goodwin 19:32

No, I love the hero image, I love it. But you can back it up. You know what I mean?

Allegra Sinclair 19:39

Well, yes, that is true. I was just like, wait, are we kind of like my pet peeve is sliders. Now I remember when I first when I first back in the day, like 10 years ago was designing websites for people and sliders were like the biz. I mean, sliders were new, they were fancy, they were sexy. You didn't have to worry about if you had a lot of content and stuff, because it was so cool to look at. But yes, my current pet peeves. So riddle me this, Tai. How do I know if I'm bankable?

Tai Goodwin 20:11

Oh, I love this question. So my definition of bankable is this. If you love the work that you're doing, you love the clients that you get. And you are completely joyous about the money that you get paid. And it's enough that you are able to do and support the people, community, and visions that you want. You are bankable.

Allegra Sinclair 20:36

I'm gonna poke that with a stick for a minute, I'm gonna poke it with love, but I'm gonna tell him go poke it. Okay, I think that what you just described is amazing and chocolatey. But it's the result of figuring out bankable.

Tai Goodwin 20:49

Say more.

Allegra Sinclair 20:51

So you said, we were teasing a minute ago. And I was like, what you don't like Big Hero images, because I have a big old picture of me at the top of my website. But you said you can back it up. I immediately said, Well, yeah, I know that. But here's the thing. There are people who have some good juicy stuff in them. But they don't think they're bankable. Yes. So what you described is me living a bankable life to me, you can absolutely challenge this back, I want you to, but what I heard was, you're working with the people you want, you're doing what you want, there is joy, there's goodness, there's chocolate all around. And not only are you able to take care of the things that you want to, but in your spirit, you're able to then go do the things that are important to you, that might not necessarily be yours, you can give, you have time to do the charitable work, etc. So all of that picture you just created, I think that's what I'm doing when I'm walking in my bankable thang. But my question is, before I get to that, how do I know if I'm bankable? And how do I figure out what it is that is bankable?

Tai Goodwin 21:54

So I define so I'm thinking about the semantics of it, right? Because I think there are people that know how to be profitable. Right? And how, you know, if you're profitable, well, you know, if you're profitable if you're making more money than what your expenses are, right, and that's profitable. But that still doesn't mean that you are bankable, right? Because there are a lot of people out here making money and they hate what they do. And all they can think about is getting retirement. Right.

So that's where some of this comes in. So if What if you want to think about like, so is the business model that you have bankable? Right, there are some other components to that. And so there's a differentiation between you being bankable, and between you having a business model that's bankable, right. So if your business model is bankable, that means that you have really identified who your audience is. Right? And not just that you have identified them, but you know, you know where to find them, you know, what makes them buy, what turns them off? I mean, there's some other questions I hear a lot of people always say, well, I know who my target audience is but when I say, can you find them, they say no. Well, then you don't really have it down.

Allegra Sinclair 23:05

Wait a minute, girl, don't race past that. Say that again. So you'll ask people, and they'll say, I know who my target audience is. And then you ask them, Well, can you find them? And they say, no. If you know who your target audience is, why can't you find them?

Tai Goodwin 23:20

Somebody has told them that to know your target audience, you have to know their demographic. So my target audience is an executive woman who is 35 plus and she makes six figures. And I say that is really nice. So can you walk into a room and can you find your ideal audience so you can pitch her your services? And they're like, uhhhh. Okay? So you know, that you haven't fully answered the question. Like, there's more to it.

Allegra Sinclair 23:48

So they know a little bit, but they don't know know. There's like Know with a big K and know with a little k?

I think part of the challenge is, and I'm talking with my ovaries here, because that's what I have. And I have some clients who are men and some clients who are women, and we respond to things differently. But I think part of what stops women is that big old self doubt.

So there's several things, 1) there's this big thing of self doubt. And when I say it's self doubt, I'm saying, we often don't kWenow what in us is valuable to others. I won't use bankable, I don't want to confuse right, but we won't know what the juicy stuff is in us, we will put barriers on our own selves that we can never possibly leap over, right, you can't get over that hurdle. So you'll never be able to tell your story. So that's one of the things.

2) I think another thing is, we think once we do one thing, that that's all we can ever do. So if I start with a service business, then I feel like that's the only thing I can ever do or be. But I think the third thing is that, 3) if I figured out what I think I'm good at, and I know how I want to serve the world, and I think my audience is a woman of a certain age who makes a certain amount of money, I think I'm done. And to your point, you're not. Because when you really do know who your audience is, because it's more than just a certain age and an amount of money. And when you really know who those people are, then you know where they are, because you are there, too.

Tai Goodwin 25:26

And that's what the part of the challenge is because people say, well, if they think it's magical, so once I write this little paragraph that describes my ideal client, they're just going to show up. And no, you have to actively go to where they are. Or sometimes you have to even change, change your messaging. So for example, even in my own business, for a long time, everything in my business was about bankable brilliance, right. And that first quiz that I developed is all about your bankable brilliance archetype. And that's a great quiz. I mean, it's really helpful for a lot of people, but it's not always my ideal audience.

And here's what I learned Allegra. The people that are making the money that I want to work with, they already know what their brilliance is. They're not trying to figure out what their bankable brilliance archetype is, like, they know that they're a coach, or that they are a trailblazer, or that they are best at doing the hands on stuff, they know that. What they're trying to figure out is how can they make their business model bankable?

Right, because you've got people that are coaches, and the only thing they offer is one on one coaching, because they love it and they're good at it. But they can't figure out how to scale that. So they're working like 50 hours a week, because the only way for them to make more money is to add more time on their calendar or to get more clients. And I come in, and I say no, you know, there's a whole other way, right? So if your primary archetype is coach, you know, if you want to scale that and make some money, maybe you create a signature system, and then you certify other people in your coaching method. Alright, so now it's less time for you when those people are paying you $8,000 to be certified in your method. And they're paying you a license fee every year.

Allegra Sinclair 27:11

That is provocative on so many levels. See, I didn't even know that was coming out. I was like, wait a minute! I have to chew on that for a moment, that was really good stuff. Not that at all hasn't been I'm like, wait a minute, shut up. Did y'all hear that? But here's something that popped into my head while you're talking about that, because I think it's interesting. And you alluded to it a moment ago, we were talking about bankable, and you talked about people being profitable.

And what spun for me was that there are a lot of people who hate what they do. And I immediately went, so there's, I'm just going to speak from my personal experience, I have a lot of skills that I don't want to use. And I am magical at that skill, right? I spent years developing those skills, and I could go out and make a ton of money using them. And that would be profitable. But, I don't want to do them. So they shouldn't even enter into my consciousness as possibilities.

But there's this other side of the coin, which you just so beautifully illustrated, in that I could actually be doing something that I like, I'm doing one on one coaching, I'm good at it, I am in the zone, I am completely in my lane, but you can burn out and start to hate something that you actually enjoy doing. And I think the story we sometimes tell ourselves is, if we're doing what we said we wanted, or what we think we love, then we should be loving it. But that's not always the case. Because to your point, if I want to scale it, for whatever reason, I want to make more money, I want to reach more people, if I'm doing one on one coaching, and that's all I'll ever consider, I'm going to be unhappy. So in that moment, when I come to that realization, then what do I do?

Tai Goodwin 28:58

You reach out to somebody like me, you know?

Allegra Sinclair 29:02

Okay, that's delicious. I so wasn't even teeing that up.

Tai Goodwin 29:09

You know, you really have to sit down and think about what what's the priority that you want to focus on in your life right now? Is it that it's more time? Is it that it's more money? You know? And once you figure that question out, then it's okay, now how can I redesign my business to support that? I just wrote some messages the other day, I was writing and I was saying that, if you're at that level, where you are, you're positioned to be a have a bankable, you know, business, then your business should support your lifestyle and not the other way around. Like your whole life should not be supporting your business. And so you have to really think about what can you do? Do you need to outsource? Do you take on partners? Like, what do you do, there's so many different business models.

And part of what's happening with people that have jumped online and there's nothing wrong with being an organic entrepreneur. Nothing wrong with that. As long as you acknowledge that at some point, you have to learn how businesses work and grow. And if you want to, you know, and if you want to scale, you have to look at other models, and they're all different kinds of models out there. Look at other models for how people have grown and expanded their business. So there's part, you know, reflection, there's part education, you know, because if you didn't know that option even existed to license what you do, you would never think about it. Right? But you have to ask those questions, what other business models are out there? There's whole workbooks devoted to this thing.

Allegra Sinclair 30:34

So a few weeks back, I can't remember when it was. But I had this moment of clarity, you know, when I just get still and quiet. And I just have a little conversation with me. And I was struck by the fact that I had spent that entire day doing stuff I wanted to do. And I was so overwhelmed with gratitude, and grace in that moment. And I put, I don't think I was on Twitter. Sorry, so I created this graphic that basically said, I think it was a Gretchen Rubin quote that said, she loves what she does so much, she do it for free, or She's so happy that people pay her for doing something that she wants to do anyway, something like that. But when I was in the comments, what I said was, that for a long time, the story I told myself was that in order to live, I was going to have to keep doing stuff that I didn't want to do, just because I was capable of doing it. And that I was really grateful in that moment that that wasn't true.

And then my challenge was, if that's the story, you're telling yourself, feel free to pivot now. It was one of the most earth shattering things I have ever posted for other people just based on response, people blew up my inbox, my comments on my website, I don't remember if I remember to post it on Facebook, because I don't spend a lot of time on Facebook. But the response was, I mean, visceral from people in that the word pivot and like a permission slip to do something different that serves you better sounded so foreign. And I thought, well, maybe we're not telling those stories.

Tai Goodwin 32:12

Yeah, that's 100% true. I mean, that pivot, you know, I will pivot in a minute, because I remember what it was like to be in a corporate job hating what I did. And I don't want to do that in my business. Like I don't like and I've said this before, like, I don't know about you, but I didn't leave my job. I didn't leave a steady paycheck so I could go and create something that's less stable at times and hate it. Who would do that? Why would you do that?

Allegra Sinclair 32:47

I'm sorry, that was so funny. I didn't leave stable employment to go do something less secure that I would hate just as much as I hated the other thing that is so... Oh, my gosh, I laughed so hard. I almost hurt myself. That was so funny. And so true. That's why it's so funny. Because it's so true. Yeah. So you said you will pivot in a minute, Have you always been so willing to pivot?

Tai Goodwin 33:13

No. One of the early things that I did was, I was a career coach, and I was a career makeover coach, Allegra. You might even remember me from those days, as the career makeover coach, and I was going to help women of color, who wanted to have these great professional careers, I was going to help them figure out how they could climb the corporate ladder. And it was all full of myself and excited because at that time, I had gone from one job to another, and I had increased my salary by about 40% in one job move. And I had done that from working with a coach and I thought coaching is the best thing since like, you know, Pentatonix or something, you know.

Allegra Sinclair 33:55

I was wondering where you were going, are we going to sliced bread or what?

Tai Goodwin 34:01

And I was like, coaching is everything. But then I went to this book event, and this guy who did bulletproof resumes, great guy, but I was really pissed off at him, because he told me, he was like, um, he said, African American women. I don't know if you're going to find a lucrative career, coaching them at that level. And I was like, What are you talking about? Man, I'm African American woman, I'm a coach myself. And so three years later, I was like he was right. And what I was, what I realized was that a lot of African American women, we struggle in the workplace, but we don't realize we don't invest in getting the help that we need at that level. And so we stay stuck in jobs, or we stay stuck on the HR admin track in careers. And we don't think to invest in a career coach, and this was maybe 2007 2008. So think about what was going on, right?

Everybody was trying to keep their jobs or, you know, just give me a resume so I can get a job because of the economy. But also, just recognizing that if I'm trying to charge, you know, $500 an hour for career coaching, to help people get to an executive level, a lot of African American women weren't going to pay for that their their jobs might pay for that they might bring in a coach. But I didn't want to work for corporate, I wanted to be totally independent. And it was a really hard lesson and a really hard pivot to understand that. At that time, that's not what was being that's not what's going to make me profitable, if I kept going on that venue.

Allegra Sinclair 35:34

Okay, so sorry, I was listening so intently, I was practicing my active listening. So I think I heard a couple of things. So at that time, you weren't finding women of color who were investing in themselves in that way? And that experience made you more inclined to pivot faster in the future?

Tai Goodwin 35:57

Yes, it made me get data, you know, okay, let's, let's think about this. Is this working? Right? Am I seeing it and pivot not just based on emotion, but on data? Right? Like, what am I seeing? What trends am I noticing? And this is part of me to being a trailblazer, right? And as a trailblazer, what I realized, and this was exactly what was happening at that phase as a trailblazer. And if anybody you know, that's listening takes this takes the quiz and that they find their Trailblazer, you're always going to be ahead of the curve.

So it took three or four years for that for for the industry to catch up where more African American women or women of color, were realizing the importance of coaching, right, because in a certain communities what you need a life coach, that's a joke, right? But now, it's not as much of a joke, you know, people really understand the value. Another area where this happened with me was online courses. I got a master's degree in instructional design for online learning. Right. So my master's degree is specifically for creating online courses. And I was doing that back in like 2010, it was really a hard sale, because only the people that were making like a lot of money in coaching, were the people that were actually investing in creating online courses. And I was like really getting frustrated, but my audience I was targeting were people who had businesses and I'm thinking, well, they would love to have online courses, but they weren't there yet. And so flash forward, three or four years later, what was the big thing in like 2015, 2016, 2017, everybody and their mom was creating an online course.

We saw Thinkific and all these other sites but I was doing that back in 2009 and 2010. I was always ahead. And if you're a trailblazer, that's something that you need to understand about yourself so that you don't pivot when you shouldn't pivot, right? Or so that you learn to capitalize on timing. And building up a resistance to, you know, people saying no, because what you realize in that case is that you have to do a lot of education, right? You have to really, really stand your ground with your brand, with your messaging and your promise until everybody else catches up to you.

Allegra Sinclair 38:07

So I think that, sorry, how about I make a complete sentence that will help both of us? I think a couple of things. So one of them is it feels like you, I'm not putting your words in mouth, but it sounds like you are more inclined to pivot now because of pain in the not pivoting.

Okay. And then the second piece of that was understanding that what you're offering, the fact that somebody doesn't want what you're offering doesn't mean that your offer doesn't have value, it means you're offering it to the wrong people.

Tai Goodwin 38:43

Absolutely.

Allegra Sinclair 38:44

Okay. Because today, or I'd say for like the last five years, I would just say historically, women of color have invested in I'm going to put a big umbrella education more than other groups. Because we come from a place where that's how you get your foot in the door, right? You have to be more educated, you have to have more stuff, right? Career development, it's such a right word we've always been big on that. But I do think that it's fascinating if I just look at the world, because I remember the first time I ever heard of a life coach, and I'm sure it was some like Hollywood person. And life coach from the outside looking in at that time was like this person will remind you to buy milk, or like you'd have a bad day, you wouldn't get a role. And you could call this person and they'd like be like, Oh, you're the bomb that director's an idiot. But I think as coaching has matured, and as we use the term differently, the world has caught up in that way.

Because if you had told me 12 years ago that I would say that I would have gone back and gotten education and certified as a coach, I would have asked you if they have drug testing at your workplace. Because that's not something that I ever thought of, because it just felt too squishy and touchy feely because I didn't understand what coaching was. And I knew a lot of people who called themselves coach and what they did. I didn't quite understand how it worked, right. But see, now that I've seen a different side of coaching, it's a real thing. Yeah, so I get it. But I think, to your point today, it would be much easier for me to say, Okay, my target is women of color, who want to remake their careers, I don't think I'd have any issues, finding someone who was willing to pay what I was charging for that, because we're in a different place.

Tai Goodwin 40:26

I think a big example, is Iyanla Vanzant. When she came out with her books, what, 15 or 20 years ago, she would not have called herself a life coach. Right? Now she's considered a life coach. Like if you look up top life coaches, you know, for for black women or whatever, her name will pop up, but you wouldn't been able to find that category for her, you know, and with the show that she does the, you know, the coaching and all that kind of stuff on the show, and you wouldn't be able to find that category for her. So yeah, you're absolutely right. It's about the timing. And if you're a trailblazer, you've got to hold on to what you do, in order for people to kind of catch up with it. Does that make sense?

Allegra Sinclair 41:05

Yeah, it does. So it's interesting as I think about Iyanla because I would never have thought of her as a life coach. And I thought Iyanla was like, I don't even know how to describe her. I knew she was on Oprah. And I thought she was like a spirit-filled person. But I never thought of her like as a coach, or do you like know, Lisa Nichols?

Yep, she's another one.

I would never have thought of Lisa as life coach. So it is fascinating to think about making sure that you're pitching what it is that you're pitching to the right people in the right place at the right time. I also think that I can have a heart for who I want to serve, and they not want to be served by me or by anyone, right. So I have a dear dear friend who really has a heart for a particular group of people. And she is always thinking of great ideas of things she could do to serve that market. And they don't want it. And as demonstrated. I mean, I'm not just saying oh, I'm just so much smarter, right? I just know, they don't want it. She can put out offers, and she'll go and meet them where they are. They don't want what it is that she's serving up. That doesn't mean that she doesn't have something in her that is brilliant and bankable. It just means that she's trying to serve something where there isn't a makret.

Tai Goodwin 42:26

I see that a lot.

Allegra Sinclair 42:29

For me, that is the magic of the pivot. That pivoting, and I'm going to say this, and it's probably going to sound weird, but pivoting is free. If I decide that I've done something for a really long time, and I don't want to do it anymore, it doesn't cost me to decide to do something different. Now, it may cost me in that moving to the new thing may include adjustments in salary as such. But what I'm saying is I don't have to pay someone in order to decide that I want to do something that serves me better. And doing the research to figure out if what I want to do actually meets a market need. Yeah, I might need to spend a little bit to invest in that. But think about the payoff. Because if I spend six months developing the prettiest, most comprehensive, most magical course ever, on, what is that thing for the Big Bang Theory when Sheldon is playing that thing?

Okay, I haven't watched it in years. But Sheldon, the quirkiest of the characters, is playing like some sort of Gregorian throat flute. It sounds awful. And he wants to annoy his roommate. So if I decided that that was my thing, I wanted to put out a course that taught people how to play that Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory, throat flute, I'm probably going to get my feelings hurt. But that doesn't mean that the world is not ready for me to teach the Gregorian throat flute. Somebody who's listening is going to let me know me, girl that flute is called x. Thank you in advance, whoever that person is. But you just have to sanity check what it is that you want to serve up and make sure that there are people who want that and that you can find them.

Tai Goodwin 44:06

Yeah, and part of is just being willing to understand what makes a business. I mean, just like you said, if you put it out there and nobody buys it, again, it could be that your product was crap. To be quite honest there are some things that are crap, right? Let's be honest, okay. Now, not everything is when you have a really good product. And it's at the wrong price point or is to the wrong person. I was talking to somebody this morning, who, you know, she wanted to do leadership coaching. And she was like, Oh, yeah, I'm gonna start, you know, getting on Instagram. And I was like, Oh, baby girl, hold up, you know, and I said, Let me pull up some statistics, right. And I'm like, you know, you want leadership, you know, you know, to focus on leaders, you know, people who own six figure seven figure businesses who lead communities. But the statistics say that the people that on Instagram are between this age and make this income. Right?

So that's called being on that, that entrepreneur side of things, right? Where you research and you really figure out where people are, you know, so it's those kind of decisions I see a lot of people make. Another thing I see people do is when they want to work with nonprofit organizations. And I used to have people all the time I say, Well, I want to work with nonprofits, but they don't pay. And I'm like, what, what nonprofits are you talking about? You know, because I can, I can, you know, tell you at least seven or eight different nonprofit organizations that have budgets of millions of dollars, right. So they do pay for certain things, and they do bring a certain kind of contractors. But if you're walking into a supermarket, and you run into Sister Halina from up the street that wants to start a nonprofit and has been trying to start a nonprofit for years, she's not going to have the resources. And so that is really again about who are you going to serve? And I always ask my clients who is willing AND able to pay you?

Allegra Sinclair 46:04

Say that because willing is one thing, able is another. Because I could be all sorts of able and not willing. Or I could be willing but I'm not able. And I think the thing is that we always want to paint people with brushes. Like we're just a very judgey world like things are good or bad. If I can afford you, but I don't want to pay that doesn't make me bad any more than it makes what you're offering me bad. It just means I don't want to do it.

That's like an old school sales thing right way from back in the day when I was doing Mary Kay. Some will, some won't, so what? If they want old looking skin, bless their heart. Go ahead on. All right. But we take it so personally, and I get it because if you come up with a course or a product, or a business offering, it's like you were pregnant with this thing, right? You carried it in your body for... How long are you pregnant, like 15 or 16 months?

So you carried this for, like 15 months, and then you finally birthed it and someone told you your baby was ugly, I get that. But my point is, at some point, maybe in like month three or four, just sanity-check whether the world is ready for your baby.

Tai Goodwin 47:10

Yeah. Another thing is that maybe you have to create the market. You know what I mean? I mean, like, who know people wanted to pet rocks? You know what I mean?

Allegra Sinclair 47:20

Wait a minute. Wait, let's take out drunken people watching TV at three o'clock in the morning. Do regular people want pet rocks?

Tai Goodwin 47:29

Well, not today. But at some point, everybody was buying pet rocks.

Allegra Sinclair 47:32

They were?!

Tai Goodwin 47:34

Yes, In 1975, girl.

Allegra Sinclair 47:36

Okay, I was unaware. I never had a pet rock.

Tai Goodwin 47:39

Let's look at the data, it says in 1976. They were discounted, but he sold 1.5 million pet rocks for $4 each. And the fad lasted for about six months and this person became a millionaire.

Allegra Sinclair 48:00

To your point, I totally get that. Sometimes you create the market, I'm just going to say that he is the exception and not the rule. But I'm just saying there aren't a ton of people who came up with a pet rock that was popular for six months that made them a millionaire?

Tai Goodwin 48:15

No, no, there aren't, you know, but, you know, it depends on how much you love the pet rock, you know how much you love your baby. Right? And I say that, because your baby is never ugly to you actually. And I share that because I mean, if it's something that you emphatically believe in, and you willing to go balls to the wall for it, go for it. Right, but understand how business works, you know, understand, you know, just really understand how business works. And that you might have to create the market, you know, you might have to buy the market. I mean, you know, to me, you have to be willing to understand how business works is what my point is.

Allegra Sinclair 48:48

I do and this is tickling me, because I want to say maybe three or four weeks ago, I think it might have been Episode 47. But I was talking about the lessons that we can learn from five year olds in punching fear in the throat in order to get what we want in life and one of them was no doesn't really mean no. Like, if you tell the five year old no, they don't actually register no. They're like stop playing. I am going to ask you again until I get the answer that I want. And when you started talking about that I was like, think about how many people must have told that child with that pet rock, no. But he kept persevering. And he made himself millions for six months. But now Don't you want to know what he's doing now?

Tai Goodwin 49:24

No, cuz I don't really care.

So I'll give you another example. It's more recent and more valuable, you know, to me, for example. So I don't know if you follow Dr. Venus Opal Reese.

Allegra Sinclair 49:41

I never heard of that person.

Okay, so I have followed her. She used to scare me because she's like, She's like, she's a sister. She had a rough upcoming, but she's a seven figure sister. And she will tell it like it T-I is. And she wanted to publish a book around black women millionaires. And she said no publishing company would work with her. They told her that black women were not interested in that content. And she just recently published a book and I bought the book, and I'm going to her event in Chicago. Right. But so but that's what I mean by you know, if people are telling you that there's no market, there's no market. Right? She is creating the community that needs her message. And that wants her message. She's got this book tour that's going to be in like six or seven cities. So I'm not going to say that there's no market for that because I want to make a million dollars. And I know other women of color that want to make a million dollars. But you have this entity that flat out told her, no black women are interested in that content. We're not even going to publish your book. But there's a lot of I mean, there's a lot of crappy being published out there these days. Right? And she's a university professor, I think she's taught at Stanford, she used to be homeless...

Okay, I have to look her up Dr. Venue Opal Reese. I never heard of it but I want to read the book all about women milliionaires.

Tai Goodwin 51:02

Exactly. You know, Stanford professor was homeless, I mean, and legitimate story and legitimate success. Right? She might have some pivots.

But and her message is all about how, you know, healing, that women need to heal our money story, because we have been told as black women that we're always supposed to work hard, right? That we're supposed to do it by ourselves, and not need help, that we're supposed to, you know, go for the accolades at work. But the minute we ask for more money, that's not on the table. Or I mean, she's got some really valid points to what she says. So when I hear that, you know, nobody wanted to publish her book, It baffles me. But I'm sharing that again, because maybe somebody that's out there listening on your show, needs to understand that just because people aren't buying what you offer, it doesn't mean that your audience is not waiting for you to show up.

Allegra Sinclair 52:04

So let me ask you one more question and then I'm going to let you go for today. You talked about how you want to help people find stuff that is really aligned. Find stuff? Lord, in the morning, you want to help people build businesses that are in 100% alignment with who they are. I know that this is a process that would take more than three minutes to answer. But how do you start? How do I know if what I'm doing is not in alignment with who I am?

Tai Goodwin 52:37

The simplest way to say it is if it does not fulfill you, if it does not bring you joy. A quick story, when I started out one of the businesses that I started after I was like, well, career coaching isn't going to work for me. But like I said, I use Facebook, so I got really, really good with social media. And so everybody started asking me, can you do social media? Can you teach me how to do this? And I said, Yes. And so I became a social media manager, because that was hot, right? That was what everybody was doing, and I could make money. And as a part-time entrepreneur, I remember when I hit $5,000 in my business, and it scared the crap out of me. Money scared me. I didn't like what I had to do to get that $5,000.

Allegra Sinclair 53:20

All money is not good money.

Tai Goodwin 53:22

And it wasn't I was doing something bad. I wasn't doing like shady deals or anything like that. But I didn't like managing other people's social media. I like managing my own stuff. But I didn't like doing it for other people. And the thought of having to do more of that to get to $10,000. I didn't want to do. And so I was like what's going on? Right? So I had to really think about this is not an alignment with who I am. And that's how that first quiz came about. Because I started seeing other people that were in the same situation, right? We're good at this, or we have a job. This is a big one, we have a job. And we got really good at doing something in a job. So that's the thing we're supposed to start a business with. And then we realize, right, I don't really like that, I was trained to do that. That's not what I really, really like, like I'm a coach and a teacher. I don't want to build websites for people. Right? I can do it. I built my own website. But if you asked me to do that, for somebody else, I hate it. And because I didn't like the work that I was doing, I didn't like the clients that I was working with, because they were asked me to do stuff I didn't like.

Allegra Sinclair 54:28

I am trying so hard not to laugh real loud right now. But when you went to wait, you were like, yeah. And now I'm bitter because I'm doing websites for people. And they actually have the nerve to ask me to do stuff I don't want to do just because I'm doing that and they're paying me to do that.

Listen, it's no different than having a job where they pay you to do stuff that you don't like to do.

I think the thing is that when you said 100% alignment with who you are I sparked so hard to that because , so hard to that, because for a long time in corporate. ..So I'd say I had one of those aha moments. And it was shortly after my mom passed because you just start to examine a whole bunch of stuff, right? And I had a lot of still quiet moments then, cuz I just did. And I thought to myself, I'm not sure who I am motherless. Right? So for my whole, you know, 45 years, I knew who I was, with this community around me, that was my amazing mom, my epic, older brother, right, lots of different people. But when my brother and mom first left, I really had to have that conversation with myself about who am I now. Is the person who I really am how I'm showing up right now.

When I first started looking at coaching, one of the things that gave me pause was we did an exercise. I went to a weekend first I didn't dive all the way in and invest, I went to a three-day program to kind of stick my feet in the water. And that program was a complete program in and of itself. So if I never went to anything else, I still had all this new insight about leadership and how showed up in the and one of the exercises just made me want to weep in public. I mean, like ugly cry, not like a delicate tear rolling down my face, like for a photo moment, like ugly cry. Because it asked me in a couple different areas, how people would describe me. And so it was like, I'm making this up but it was like people at work, like your friends and like your family. And I was like I am different people in each of those boxes. And at that moment, it struck me in a way it hadn't before. And I was like, why am I spending two thirds of my time being someone I'm not?

So when you talked about being in 100% alignment with who you are, I totally get the 'if it brings you joy, then you're in alignment'is. Yeah. Right. If it makes you miserable, then you're not. But I do think it's a little bit deeper than that. Because to your point when I said all money's not good money. And my cousin who's 101 says that all the time. It's one of her favorite phrases. But what she means is it doesn't have to be illegal. It doesn't have to be like illegal money to be not good money. She's like, she very much as thinking the way you just said it depending on what you had to do to get it and how it makes you feel. And do you want to do it? So I thought about when your alignment with who you are, yes, it's your joyful.

But here's the thing, you don't have to do something if you don't want to. That sounds so simple, but it doesn't have to be a bad thing. You can give up a good thing. I remember staying in my office at General Mills and being the most miserable I'd ever been, I looked around and I thought there are so many people who would love to be standing in this office doing what I do for a living. I feel like a responsibility to black women everywhere to stay in this spot and represent. And then I had a different thought, which was I hate everything about this. And it is a great thing but I'm allowed to give up a great thing to go get an even better thing.

So I think the thing about alignment that helps people punch that fear in the throat is, I understand what you're holding on to is good, might even be great. And it's okay to me that you don't want it. And I believe for you, before you believe it for yourself, that when you let go of that thing that is not an alignment, that you don't want, that makes you sad on the weekends, that makes you keep buying $800 purses so then you won't mind going to a job that you can't stand. When you let go of that thing, I believe that something even better is going to show up and it's going to look completely different. But it is going to be in alignment.

So enlightenment looks like not grinding your teeth at night, right? Lower stress, you know, the amount of money that you need to cover all your stuff and sow seeds into other people. That's what alignment really looks like.

Tai Goodwin 58:45

Absolutely and it's okay that things change over time. You know, what worked for you two years ago, may not work for you two years from now. And it's being okay with that fluidity of life and really trusting that the universe and I think it's Gabby Bernstein who says the universe has your back, right? That everything that you need, will show up when you take action. And there's one quote that I love I say this all the time to folks, you can't climb a mountain if your hand is full of pebbles. Know if you try to hold on to these pebbly things that are small, it might be the best title you've ever had but it's small because it's not your highest good. And if you're holding on to that you have no room, and nothing to support you as you're trying to climb up the mountain. So you stay exactly where you are. And you stay stuck. You stay defeated, you stay miserable. And just like you said, you will try to fill that gap, you will try to fill that space that's your calling. You know, that's your purpose. You will try to fill that with food, sex, shopping, people, whatever. Right? And that's not the place where we want to be. You don't have to stay in that place.

Allegra Sinclair 59:57

Girl, girl, we could go to church right now, but I had two weeks ago an episode I think it's Episode 49 I really need to pay attention. But it's with Reverend Shelley and I actually met her online but she is the pastor who did my brother's memorial service. And she talked about how she found the Lord, I want to say she was 27 and she said over the next year she gained 100 pounds because she was replacing other activities. That passage was sexual chocolate. That's all I'm gonna say, listen to episode 50 y'all don't sleep on Reverend Shelley. That's all I'm going to say. She schooled me and when you just went to how we fill it with other stuff? Yes, we do. Hey, Reverend. Reverend Dr. Shelley? Yes, I think it was Episode Fifty. And that child took me to sexual chocolate and I have not been the same because I didn't know she was going to take me there. And as she's a yoga girl, it's a fascinating story. But I digress.

I loved everything about that. I have loved everything about you being here pouring yourself into my audience. Is there anything we didn't touch on that you just have a burning in your heart to tell folks today?

Tai Goodwin 1:01:18

There's one more quote that I always share because it's into my heart and the thing is, listen, there are people who cannot step into their purpose until you step into yours.

Allegra Sinclair 1:01:29

Whoo, I'm waving my hanky.

Tai Goodwin 1:01:30

That's from my book, Girlfriend, it's Your Time.

Allegra Sinclair 1:01:49

I am buying that with my own wallet not with other people's money, but with my cheddar. That is fantastic. Thank you so much for being here. I am going to include links in the show notes because I know everybody's gonna be like who was this? Where do we get more of her? I do know if they want to take the quiz to figure out what their brilliance archetype is they can visit TaiGoodwin.com/bzquiz Again, that will be in the show notes, y'all. But for those of you who need to run right now, TaiGoodwin.com/bzquiz. I'll also include links to the book and your other items. Now tell me a little bit about your Facebook group is that invite only?

Tai Goodwin 1:02:31

No, it's not. It's Brilliant Business Girlfriends and you can find it right on Facebook. You've got to answer a couple of questions. I do vet people. And if you are not willing to join the conversation, do not join the group because I will kick you out.

Allegra Sinclair 1:02:46

Go bigger, stay home. See she is not to be trifled with me. This is the thing you have to fill your circle with people who challenge you in such a good way that you know you have to show up fully, or not show up at all. Thank you so much for being here. You're gonna have to be back because there's more to chew on.

Tai Goodwin 1:03:03

Absolutely, it's been an absolute pleasure. And I am so fortunate that you are in my circle.

Allegra Sinclair 1:03:08

Oh, thank you so much. All right, y'all. Thanks for listening. We'll catch you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai